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[jchrisobrien]

Episode III made Episodes I and II better movies. Maybe not I as much, but definitely II. More of you should see it so we can discuss it!

I'll have more non-spoilery things to say about it tomorrow, but it's been a full day on top of an exhausting night before hand.

There's lots more excitement to come, but until then... glorious (hopefully light saber filled) sleep.

Comments

[fenzle.livejournal.com]

You really think so? To me EP III just affirmed how utterly pointless the first two were. This was a pretty good movie and nothing in the previous flicks was necessary to make it a pretty good movie.

After I left the theater, I found myself thinking back and inwardly cringing at the trade dispute from the first film and the "all jedi are gullible idiots" plotting of the second. I'll undoubtedly watch sith on video when it comes out, but If I never see or hear of I or II again in my life, that will be just fine.

[silas7.livejournal.com]

There's nothing pointless about Ray Park's lightsaber dueling in the first movie! The pod race, however...

The first two were made better IMO because we see the full cycle of the story. Everything in those films built to this point. The first film for me really just set the scene of the old republic. The second film showed Anakin growing up, and being a cocky, petulent kid. By Ep 3 we see he's improved, but he still isn't trusted by the Jedi, who by now are getting suspicious that Palpatine isn't stepping down.

I'm not saying that I and II are great movies because of this, but I think that having seen the whole story arc, some things make more sense, and they add a weight and validity to events in the 3rd movie. You know, there's not too much wrong with the first few films taht about 45 minutes of editing would fix. Redub the aliens, lose the pod race and the assembly belt scene, and it's world's better.

[cris.livejournal.com]

see, my snarky response was,

"Episode III made Episode I and II IV and V better movies."

for more or less the same reasons that you articulated in this response. You get to see all of the setup for the beginning of Episode IV, and there's a lot of delicious foreshadowing and parallelism with V. The overall result is a lot of additional depth that's given to the middle trilogy. If only I and II could've made a similar contribiton.

We all went into I and II knowing the general trajectory of Anakin's career. We didn't need III to tell us what would happen, because we already got that from Kenobi's exposition in IV. The purpose for each of the episodes was established and advertised to fans long before the films ever made it to a theater. That they're mediocre films is more due to a failure in telling a compelling story within their specific focus, and that's something that III could not repair. If anything the failure of setup in I and II kept III from being a really great movie.

Examples -- spoilers in small blockquote

so, I understand that there's this need to transform Trade Federation -> Separatists -> Rebellion, but there's too much time that passes in between films to really make us appreciate the evolution of that particular struggle. The Neimoidans go from being these greedy villains to sideline pansies to these defenseless separatists begging for peace, and it feels pretty hollow and hand-wavy. Personally, I think Lucas missed a great opportunity to use Bail Organa as a proxy for showing the shifting attitudes of the Republic. The worry and suspicion that he showed in Episode III should have been developed in I and II. Instead, Lucas is using the current political climate as a crutch to tell his story. Even if I agree with his politics, it's an astoundingly lazy way to tell a story.

Vader should not be whiny, and the way Anakin was written in Episode II turned him into this sort of gullible little brat. The Vader of the middle trilogy broods -- part of his menace is the emotionless visage of the mask. His resurrection should have been the culmination of that path, but instead we get another pathetic tantrum. We get the feeling that Anakin was supposed to be written as this passionate, sorta-swashbuckling, sorta-idealistic Jedi who understands the need to subsume one's desires but is just a little too cocky, a little too brash, and that causes his downfall -- that his energetic soul is channeled into the cold attitude of Vader is supposed to be a tragedy, but since the majority of his passion was manifested in the worst pouty face in the history of cinema, getting the mask on was a relief.

though, while we're on the subject of cocky heroes, and this doesn't really have anything to do with I or II, but at the end of the first action scene, when Anakin lands the shattered wreck of Grievous' ship, silentq leaned over to me and said, "Now, that's a Han Solo landing." and I realized that one of the things that I really missed in the first trilogy was someone like Han Solo -- or more specifically, in a story that is populated by British (Jedi) and Nazi (Sith) stereotypes, it would've been great to have an American provide the comic relief -- instead of relying on Keystone Droid slapstick. It could also have been really interestng if Han were the template for Anakin, instead of Luke "I was going to Tashi Station to pick up some power converters!" Skywalker. Not that there's anything oedipal about that or anything ;)

[silas7.livejournal.com]

Episodes VI and V didn't really need to be made better ;) but I get your point.

The Phantom Menace's contribution to the series was to show you what the Old Republic looked like: the fashion, the politics, the Jedi in their glory, and the bickering and trade disputes that were the springboard for the Empire. I was ruined by racial stereotyping, a poor choice for Anakin, and scenes pandering to people much younger than us. Episode II's contribution was the the creation of the tools of the Empire, I for one got a chill when I saw the scene of all the stormtroopers ranked up, with the proto- AT AT's and Star Destroyers flying around.

re: trajectories. The stories are mediocre, and that's all GL's fault. He fumbled so badly (in most people's opinion) that people were heavily biased against this film. Either you thought it was going to stink, or that it couldn't redeem the other films. Approached with that attitude (which George brought on, mind you) yes, there is no way this film could be good. In my eyes, there were bits and pieces that didn't work (like Anakin's character) that worked upon seeing this film. The romance never really flew not in the last film, not in this one. That does lay a big hurt on this film.

see, I saw the Neimoidians quite differently. They started as the greedy villains, then you saw they became part of the conspiracy organized by Dooku. In the end, they were still pawns, and Sidious sent Vader off to clean up his loose ends, so they couldn't reveal his part in the conspiracy. I didn't see them as part of the actual Rebellion at all, that probably occured between III and IV. That's a good 18 years or so of time, time in which Palpatine reamins in charge, w/out any real enemy anymore, and people begin to question him, and the Senate gets all uppity (spearheaded by Bail Organa) until they finish building the Death Star and Palpatine says "Screw you guys, I'm going to blow up your home." That's the time when Bail does the things you suggested.

Seeing III made me like Anakin more in II. In II, he's arrogant and petulent. He thinks he's the Chosen One, he was accepted as a Jedi later than anyone else, and he's gotten better more quickly than anyone else. But the Council won't treat him with the respect he deserves. Boo hoo, poor Ani! He's a whiner at that point, and whiners are rarely sympathetic. In fact, I don't think you ARE supposed to be sympathetic of him yet. He runs around, getting mad, killing sand people, and finally Dooku cuts on his hand after smacking him around, showing him that he's not all that. In Episode III he has a little more humility and seasoning. He's starting to master his emotions, but he's still not perfect. He started his training too late. He fell in love. All things Jedi aren't supposed to do. He's subjected to temptations that the other Jedi aren't, being trained from birth to rein in their emotions and live a monastic life. Combine that with his friendship with Palpatine, causing the other Jedi to mistrust him, and it pushes him beyound pouty into genuine conflict. IMO.

Don't get me wrong, that last bit of the movie with him as Vader SUCKED. I think Sidious should have told him that he killed padme before the mask went on, so you could hear hayen screaming, have it cut off by the mask, and then heard the slow labored breathing. That would have been a much better transformation. I hate that little ending part a lot, but I still like the movie.

We could have gotten Han Solo. Instead we got Jar Jar Binks. Damn you George Lucas, damn you to Hell.