Old Habits

[jchrisobrien]

Vatican says AIDS can slip through a condom

(I can't send any mail today, so I'm talking about this here).

I don't know why I get so bent out of shape when people knock the Church. In the Church's eyes, I'm not a good Catholic at all. I disagree with a lot of the proclamations of the Church, but I still think I follow the teachings in the Bible. The moment I hear people slamming the Church however, my hackles raise. The question is, why?

Part of that no doubt stems from my old beliefs about the Church. I was very devout all through high school. I actually liked reading the Bible (okay, mainly Revelations). I had a very active imagination, and love thinking about the angels and the War in Heaven and the Nephilim. The Old Testament can totally read like a fantasy novel (some would say that it is. ha ha ha.). I really believed in Good and Evil, and the Church and the angels were on the side of Good.

After reading lots of history, and growing more exposed to life, I came to see that the Church was made of people, who are good and bad. The Church became an institution, and fell prey to corruption and greed and all the things you'd associate with any organization. I thought that the priests would follow their beliefs and since they were the examples for the rest of us, they would follow their own rules. Some of them did. Some of them didn't.

The other thing that bugs me, is the double standard. A lot of faiths believe in abstinence, and find promiscuity a sin. It's not purely a Christian or Catholic thing. Other faiths are just as puritanical, some even more so. But GOD FORBID you say anything bad about Judaism or Islam w/out being labeled a bigot. Why is it okay to talk shit about the Catholic church and not Islam, or Buddhist monks, or Judaism? Oh, the Vatican is evil, they have done horrible things, they should be locked away. No one bats an eye. Now change the Vatican to a sect of Judaism, or the ruling body there. See how quickly you get called a bigot or racist.

The quick and easy answer is to not let it get to me. I am not the Vatican, I do think that telling people not to use condoms because they don't stop AIDS is irresponsible. (*) An attack on Catholicism is not an attack on the people who practice it.

Or is it?

(*) The Church could have avoided a lot of misrepresentation if they had said, condoms reduce the risk of getting AIDS, but they don't prevent it all together. If you want to avoid getting AIDS, don't have sex period. But instead, they make a stupid statement making them look like idiots.

Comments

[silas7.livejournal.com]

The Catholic Church was heavily persecuted in it's inception. There were fierce wars in England and Ireland between Protestants and Catholics. Even into this century, being a Catholic in this country could get you dirty looks, discrimination, or beatings.

The Church did become a very powerful institution, but the people in it weren't always protected by that.

Many of us do come from Christian backgrounds, but a lot of people (epecially among our friends) are agnostic, atheistic, pagan, etc. They don't associate with Christianity. They are a tolerant group of people on the whole, but on Christianity the tolerance slides a bit.

[couplingchaos.livejournal.com]

You and Atalanta busted me on Christianity's past of persecution--a past which I'm aware of, but wasn't considering in looking at the Church's power and influence in the modern world.

Even among our atheist/etc. friends, many have grown up with the influence of Christianity in some form or another (if they grew up in the United States), and some seem to want to put as much distance between them and the institution as possible.

[silas7.livejournal.com]

They do have power and influence, as an organization. I'm saying that the people in it were and in some places are being persecuted. That's all.

I'm all for them putting distance between them and the Church. :)

[saturniidae.livejournal.com]

Even into this century, being a Catholic in this country could get you dirty looks, discrimination, or beatings.

Um, where? Fundamentalist demonstrators or protestors, maybe. Your average Catholic going about their business? I doubt it.

As a person who has had occasion to talk "shit" about the church, I will respond. My major problem with many people who call themselves Catholic is that they openly disagree with many of the policies of the Church, and even with parts of the doctrine of catholic faith, but continue to refer to themselves as Catholics, and possibly attend and finacially contribute to a Catholic church. I'm not just talking about sex here; many people also object to the Church's treatment of women as second-class humans, celibate clergy, literal definitions of heaven and hell, etc. I can understand the choice of participating in a known community despite some small concerns, but together, these are not small. I don't understand why more people don't pick up and leave the Catholic church and take their census numbers and their dollars with them. Many Protestant faiths contain the meat of catholic faith without the political overtones and Puritan interest in everyone's sex life. Personally, I disagree with both the institutional church and with deity-based faith in general, so I have removed myself entirely. I disagree with a number of other religions on both institutional and faith-based issues, but for some reason, most of them (in this country, anyway) aren't trying to force themselves on me like a drunken frat boy [hey, we're discussing slurs, right?]. The Hassidim aren't trying to make Kosher laws a federal issue.

I respect those who do their honest best to live the life they deem right or good, no matter the label, as long as it does not involve stepping on the rights of others. I also respect anyone who chooses to try to change the Church from within rather than lapse or change churches, and is making a visible effort to do so. Everyone who calls themself a Catholic and gleefully goes about premaritally fucking and drinking to excess and not giving one minute or cent to charity is a hypocrite, and that's a lot of people.

Still, Pope prison bitch jokes are just as stupid and wrong as nigger jokes, and only serve to display one's ignorance.

[alonewiththemoon]

Um, where? Fundamentalist demonstrators or protestors, maybe. Your average Catholic going about their business? I doubt it.


Well, when my parents got married in Scranton, PA in the 1960s it was considered a mixed marriage because my dad was of a Baptist background and my mother Catholic. My grandmother made it very clear how displeased she was that she would have to set foot in a Catholic church, for the first time in her life, for their wedding. In that town at that time, Catholics were looked down on as idolatrous, ignorant and superstitious people keeping themselves in poverty because they keep cranking out those children and becoming a burden on society. I would imagine people are much more chill about it all now, but social discrimination against Catholics was certainly alive and well there at the time.

[silas7.livejournal.com]

Ah, Scranton. :)

[silas7.livejournal.com]

Catholics were heavily discriminated against at the turn of the century, and that attitude remained. You don't see it as much today, I'll admit.

In a way, you've made me feel better about not identifying as Catholic. You've hit the nail on the head, really. I don't agree with their stance or sex, or homosexuals, or limiting the power of women. I still think Heaven and Hell are neat though, at least as concepts. I stopped going to Church because I couldn't call myself a good Catholic if I held onto my beliefs. I don't even go on Christmas, because I told myself I'd never become a twice a year Catholic.

The church does "force itself" on you, but other religions exert pressure too. Instead of The Church doing it, the community does it. Crowds of Hindus stoning an adulterer.